Anonymous asked: If Cap comics are just silly mindless entertainment, then having a silly twist isn't really offensive and people are overreacting. But if Cap's supposed to be a character we're emotionally invested in, if he's a broader symbol of what's good about America, democracy & freedom, then I do think it's kind of hurtful to take that hero away & turn him into a fictionalized version of a Nazi, even if they're saying Hydra is bad within the comic. Problem is, doesn't Marvel prefer the latter to be true?
hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger:
I agree that we want you to be emotionally invested in the characters, and even that Cap is a broader symbol of what’s good about America. The part I disagree with is the idea that putting the hero/symbol in the worst possible place is a bad thing.
All this is focused on Captain America, who is a natural symbol for a lot of big American ideals. I’ve compared this story in the past to Superior Spider-Man, and people have argued that they don’t think it’s the same thing because of what Cap represents. Well…I disagree, for myself at least.
Spider-Man is a really important character, to me. I have said before that Spider-Man is my religion, and I really believe that with all my heart. I am a die-hard Atheist and I do not believe in or support religion. But all the good things people have told me they have gotten from religion in their lives? I got all of those things from Spider-Man. Morality, community, a way of looking at life…the idea that you need to try to do what’s right even if it’s to your own detriment, that you don’t do what’s right because it’s easy, you do it because it’s right and you might even suffer for it…all that is a big part of my personal belief system, and I think SO MUCH of that is rooted in Peter Parker and his trials and tribulations.
So, Superior Spider-Man. It was the story of Spidey’s greatest enemy, Doctor Octopus, defeating Spider-Man, taking his body and stealing his life and identity. Peter’s mind dies, and Otto Octavius lives on in hos body, taking his place.
And there were lots of fans who were outraged by this story. They were furious that we would have such an amazing hero be defeated, and that we would follow the story of a villain. Not to spoil it too much, I will just say that by the course of that series, by taking Peter to and even past his lowest point of dying and being gone…it actually reaffirmed all the wonderful things that I and those other fans love about Peter. It only through overcoming the greatest adversity that the full strength of the character can be shown. It’s the emotional and moral version of Spidey being trapped under the rubble in Spider-Man 33…he has to use EVERY OUNCE of his strength and determination to lift himself free.
And yes–some of those unhappy fans really did stop reading Spider-Man forever. Others read it and reached out to say they had been wrong and that they loved the full story when it came out.
To me, believing that he is and always has been an agent of the very forces he has fought against for his entire career sounds like the lowest possible point for Captain America. That’s why I want to see how he climbs back from it.
This explains so much about Heil Marvel’s current creative - and sales - downward trajectory. And now I know Not So Secret Cashgrab really will be a creative disaster.
Because what is described objectively, definitely did NOT happen in Superior Spider-Man. Peter did not use his inner strength and love for Aunt May to claw his way back ala ASM 33 (much less use his inner strength and love for his new wife to literally defy the grave as he did in Kraven’s Last Hunt). Not at all. No, what actually happened is Norman said “boo” to Otto, Otto suddenly decided, “Gee, guess I’m not cut out for this after all! My bad!” and he handed Peter’s body back to him because a new movie was about to come out and Marvel needed Peter Parker back in his book in case a moviegoer happened to wander into a comic shop.
Peter didn’t do bupkis to get a victory.
And then Peter let Norman run away because, reasons. Namely, the credit page said “Writer: Dan Slott” and we all know that’s an oxymoron.
To add insult to injury, Peter then goes around apologizing to people for having the bad manners to get himself killed, and his nearest and dearest say, “Yeah. You know what, Peter? You’re right. You’re an idiot because bad things happened to you so we don’t want to have anything to do with you.” And that’s such an AWESOME lesson for readers: Yes, please, blame the victim! Victims are responsible for everything that happens to them. Go ahead, pile on victims, they deserve it! Shun them, cut them out of your lives: it’s the least you can do to those losers when bad things not even remotely of their own making happen to them.
But hey, maybe Peter learned something from the experience. Maybe he came to a new determination, or discovered a new source of grit, or decided to hold his loved ones even closer since he now knows life is precious. Or he resolved to live life more fully since he experienced it being taken awa–
BWA HA HA! I can’t even complete that paragraph. OF COURSE that’s not what happens. No, the closest Peter gets to introspection is “Otto is a jerk.” I guess we should count our blessings that at least Peter didn’t call Otto a poopyhead.
And look! Peter gets a company he didn’t build! Peter gets a degree he didn’t earn! But hmm, maybe an upstanding, moral young man like Peter, who always left money for the Daily Bugle editions he would snatch up from a newsstand with a web - you know, the hero who “needs to try to do what’s right even if it’s to your own detriment, that you don’t do what’s right because it’s easy, you do it because it’s right and you might even suffer for it” - maybe that guy might have qualms–
BWA HA HA! No, can’t complete that one, either. OF COURSE Peter just blithely accepts them. Kids, never let someone tell you you have to work hard and earn your rewards. Peter doesn’t. He takes all the benefits from the company and the credit for the degree without a second thought or a deeper look - even though they are the largess of the genocidal supervillian who, for all intents and purposes, left him dead for weeks/months/whatever, it’s Marvel time. Yeah, that’s something to love about Peter, alright. So glad that was reaffirmed by that story.
TL;dr: Superior Spider-Man is decidedly inferior when it comes to the craft of writing. It is a travesty of poor characterization, poor plot structure, poor pacing. If Superior reaffirms everything one loves about Spider-Man: then Mephisto-verse Slotter Starker is truly the comic book hero one deserves. On the other hand, it means one understands absolutely nothing about Stan Lee’s Peter Parker, character archetypes, and the basics of storytelling.
And yay! Looks like the sad sacks who still pay for Heil Marvel comics are in for more of the same with Not So Secret Cashgrab. Enjoy!
A few points
- It was stated in that apparently Otto was in control for a whole year of Peter’s life
- Allegedly ‘enlightened’ pundits have in not so many words genuinely blamed Peter for what happened to him in Superior Spider-Man because he made an enemy of Doc Ock. As we all know stopping someone from committing a serious crime which would endanger lives and using necessary physical force to do that means that when that person then wants to harm you or your loved ones, well its your own fault for getting involved of course.
- I feel like most people who praise Superior Spider-Man grasp the concept and then just project what they want onto it peppered by a few specifics here and there. Like they think otto as Spider-Man is ingenious and so this whole thing must be ingenious. Similar to Civil War 2006. I don’t think a lot of people praising it either read the specifics or paid much attention to them, let alone in the context of the wider history of the series. So Doc Ock is just a ‘bad guy’ in the most broad typical of senses of the term as opposed to specificially one who’s tried to commit mass genocide twice or who once tried to make everyone a drug addict to sell them the cure and get rich off of that
- Peter during and after Superior has expressed sentiments that Otto wasn’t all bad, such as in Clone Conspiracy. Which is just royally fucked up given what Otto did to him
